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Queensland WCG teams in limbo
 Author : 
22-07-2010 02:20pm


Before I begin, let me share a bit of information on how I understand WCG autoberths have worked in the past two years in Melbourne.

The cafe's that take on the responsibility of hosting a WCG qualifier enter into an agreement that they will cover the costs of an autoberth. Why would they do that? Because the WCG brand is suppose to be something the event organisers can flaunt to sponsors and gain interest for registrations, even if it is just a qualifier - this is certainly the case in other countries, and may have been for WCG events prior to 2009.

In 2009 when we helped ZAM run the WCG qualifier, it was stressed to us by Russell (owner of ZAM) that we needed to get as many teams as possible, or it will run at a loss for ZAM. 2010 was no different when we offered our assistance to Midcity to arrange the WCG Qualifier, our instructions were to get as many teams as possible.

The Queensland qualifier this year however only attracted a total of 5 teams. No matter how you do the maths, fitting venue hire, let alone an autoberth itself just isn't possible. But despite the low registrations until the date of the event, no warnings were made to encourage signups, so we can assume the teams competing came into the qualifier were under no stress that an autoberth may not have been viable.

Fast forward to today - two days before WCG Finals are set to begin, Australia Immunity who won the autoberth in Queensland still haven't had their tickets booked and were told today that there is only $375 for the flights.

The runners up Australia Boston Deagle who were set to attend WCG this week are now also in limbo as two of them had counted on having their tickets booked through Australia Immunity's autoberth (two iM members reside in Sydney). To make matters worse, the remaining Australia Boston Deagle members have already booked flights and accommodation to WCG.

It's not known what these two teams will do yet, but it's expected Australia Immunity will fly up on their own dime again.


1. 
 kEZ
 22/07/10 02:31pm
couldnt the immunity players get money from their sponsors or something? bl boston deagle tho
2. 
 22/07/10 02:33pm
No money can be taken from the Sydney Qual pool?
3. 
 22/07/10 02:43pm
we gave mine and pupajoN's flights to BostonDeagle KEZ, we thought wed have the other 3 covered from the auto-berth but have to book them 1 day before now :S
4. 
 22/07/10 02:45pm
like i said before, give Immunity an auto/invite to every national and we will pay our own way their and book our flights a month in advance.. gives 1 more auto to a state qual + saves us spending $1000-2000 on a qualifier which we end up getting ~$300 for to fly again in a week/month however long it is till the national
5. 
 22/07/10 02:50pm
Just win world wcg and we'll call it even rizeyboi.
6. 
 22/07/10 02:59pm
Coming to screens worldwide this summer : Wahel and the Lost Xai
7. 
 22/07/10 03:03pm
it's hardly a reasonable ask to let iM pay their own just because they have sponsors. What compounds the problem is they have already forked out 3 flights + accom to get to the qualifier.

Rize is correct, if they had of just given iM a straight invite to WCG, they would of happily paid their 3 flights + accom and be on their way.

Now it looks like they will pay 3 flights + accom for the qual PLUS more costs for flights.

The only downside to that is, it's a slippery slope. If you invite iM, do you then invite Archaic ? if you invite Archaic do you then invite KBS ? and so on. eventually it doesnt matter how good you are, you can play nats as long as you have a sponsor.

8. 
 22/07/10 03:04pm
that really sucks
9. 
 22/07/10 03:06pm
With regards to the Qualifier, i wasn't really in the loop with the organising, but most of the teams didnt bother because by the time they book flights (Monday), it's only 4 days notice to arrive in Sydney on Friday. Not even a weeks notice.

This combined with the fact people do not like beyond internet cafe.

10. 
 22/07/10 03:11pm
yeah thats the problem is where the invites end and who is deserving of one etc
11. 
 22/07/10 03:35pm
cbf media
12. 
 22/07/10 03:43pm
EDITED
The flights for us isn't a problem - I would however like to see more transparency.

If we know upfront there won't be any auto-birth or the possibility of an auto-birth pending team attendance then teams will know what they're getting themselves into. I have an issue with events that state flights will be included when clearly there are a lot of conditions surrounding the statement which are not defined or even alluded to.

If a team is the Australian Champions - e.g. won the previous LAN National I don't see any problem offering that team whoever they may be a immediate qualification position. It is then up to the teams discretion whether they accept the invite or attend a qualifier in order to obtain an auto-birth. Immunity has been through this hoop many times before and it's frustrating having to pay $2K for a qualifier and $2k for the final.

After speaking with CBN it's clear an agreement was made with the relevant LAN Cafe's stating they were responsible for the qualification flights (The LAN Cafe). This is ultimately where things have gone pear shaped. In regard to the Sydney qualifier I've been informed that Archaic were given the money.

At the end of the day this shouldn't take away from WCG AU. I hope everyone involved has a great time and everyone plays some good CS. :)

GL HF!
13. 
 22/07/10 05:35pm
wait, i'm a little lost, Archaic got money ? im pretty sure the home state never gets money and that money should be put into the pool for the VIC/QLD flights...

14. 
 22/07/10 05:58pm
I think its usually like that for majority of nats (community nats) to save money gomez, as the host state is obviously the only place you can make any kind of profit. With previous years WCG's however i think that even the host-state has been given an autoberth, if required due to having interstate players, which obviously in this case archaic has 3 of.
15. 
 22/07/10 06:12pm
Rizzlers Cure To Australian TurdStrike

The Rules

Immunity and the current national champion or 2nd place (if the champions of the last national were Immunity) will recieve an INVITE to the next national competition. The Second/1st Placed team (apart from Immunity) can choose to accept their INVITE spot, or they can gamble and attend a qualifier in attempt to gain an Auto-Birth. Immunity will lose there privelidge of attaining an automatic invite if they drop below top 2 rank in Australia and have to qualify like everyone else.

NSW/QLD/VIC qualifiers are now given 1 or 2 (depending on the last winners) more auto-birth spots for the nationals.

Why Immunity gets a free ride you might ask?

Why not? iM has undoubtedly been the best/well backed organisation in Australia since 2005, and also has placed top 3 in almost every national final in the last 5 years, They can afford it and will also save alot of money not attending smaller qualifiers. Europe has done this method since i can remember and have auto-birthed teams like SK.Swe and Fnatic to their national finals

If anyone has an argument against why iM should get an invite directly to nationals OR why the 1st/2nd place teams shouldnt either please post it
16. 
 22/07/10 06:39pm
Simple miz, you only get better by playing good teams, if you only get the chance to play iM at nats, your not going to get any better, even though last sunday was run very unprofessionally im sure everyone playing the qual gained sum sort of increase in skill purely based on you guys turning up. And TBH with an autobirth of what ? 325 dollars its not even worth protecting....
17. 
 22/07/10 06:43pm
#15 that sounds good, now qld can have 4 teams instead of 5 at their qual and the autoberth can be worth $175 now instead of $325
18. 
 22/07/10 06:46pm
Miles that was suggested by Pete to Chris during a LegionTD WCG match
19. 
 22/07/10 06:54pm
EDITED
Ditch the quals. Let everyone turn up to nats. Atleast that in some way allows WA/SA/Whatever other gimp state teams to play wcg. Even though those states have ratfuck all teams, PGC would probably be top6 at wcg, pretty shit to basically exclude them. 5 team qual for 3 spots in qld? Waste of t1me.
20. 
 22/07/10 07:10pm
Fuck you CBNmedia, fuck you in your stupid asses.
21. 
 22/07/10 07:11pm
EDITED
Yes Wahel! Let's have a 20 team national tournament. I'm sure that could run on time and we could finish it all on one weekend.

EDIT: Sarcasm.
22. 
 22/07/10 07:12pm
EDITED
then you would have under 4 teams at nats.. Yeah i know sam (sponny) but its getting hard for us to spend 1-2k on accomo and flights JUST to qualify then not getting anything really for winning that qual and having to pay another 1-2k to get our team to wherever the national final is. This is just a shortcut that would allow us and another team to attend the finals alot more conveniently and theyd both be deserving of the invites

i suggested this ages ago to george bd and gomez vinny :P
23. 
 22/07/10 07:12pm
"In regard to the Sydney qualifier I've been informed that Archaic were given the money."

First I've heard of that
24. 
 22/07/10 07:13pm
yeah but if we dont goto the QLD qual that might mean other teams will attend so there might actually be more spots in the end if we dont.. (directed at striz)
25. 
 22/07/10 07:16pm
Sommi - You can't get 4 groups of 5 done on a saturday, and a bo3 single elim with 8 teams done on a sunday? Didn't know we were limited to 10 computers total at beyond.
26. 
 22/07/10 07:16pm
EDITED
and bottom seed will play us aswell so saying having us at the qual would be good for the newbier teams is questionable. Id say itd be better for them to get more games vs teams a little better than them, not ones that will stomp them 16-0

In saying that there isnt really any breakup of team level anymore in Aus its that dead... i got no idea anymore
27. 
 22/07/10 07:18pm
If you didn't get romped 16-8 by brispastics i'd give you an auto-invite, m1lez.
28. 
 22/07/10 07:20pm
EDITED
#24 It probably wouldnt change anything, as there would be 1 less spot up for grabs at the qual anyway due to you guys having already qualified, so it would pretty much be as if you're at the qual anyway, but arent really (if that makes sense). In the end all it would do is mean 1-2 less teams at qualifiers, less games at qualifiers, and as sponny said lower quality competition at qualifiers, none of which are a good thing.

There's an incredible lack of teams at qualifiers already, i really cant see it as a good thing to make 1, possibly 2, less teams show up to quals.

The main problem you seem to have is the difficulty you guys have in attending quals (due to cost and interstate lineup) and thats your choice to have, but its also your problem and you have to deal with it. It's not fair in the slightest to other interstate teams who may be of a lesser quality who still have to do the hard yards and either play the qual without their full team in the hope they can still get an invite, or fork up the cash to play the qual with their lineup.
29. 
 22/07/10 07:20pm
ya cant win em all sonny
30. 
 22/07/10 07:24pm
I get what ya mean striz, im a retard didnt really look at it that way haha, your right wed still actually be in the qual sortof..

It is our choice and problem in the end to have this lineup but yea im just getting over going interstate for 1 day with a 4-8 team qual. If it was a decent qual with 16 teams i wouldnt care at all its just depressing. And we cant really use 3 sluts for nsw/qld as that would be turd.
31. 
 22/07/10 07:27pm
and also we are looking more bigger picture in cs now, and its impossible to have the best team in aus from 1 state now, the 5/10 best are spread out
32. 
 22/07/10 07:27pm
should chase that up pandan
33. 
 22/07/10 07:30pm
ZPR probs just did a runner with it aye
34. 
 22/07/10 07:32pm
I was suggesting that the players got the money, not me - which was clearly what Tony was insinuating :)
35. 
 22/07/10 07:35pm
I think he meant that the qual money went to your interstate players flights?
36. 
 22/07/10 07:41pm
There is ways Miles' idea can work, and I do support it fully for dice nats.

For example to answer #17, Immunity will still have to pay an entry fee which will go to a nominated state. Therefor the funding for autoberth for the state qualifier is still there whilst saving money on what would have been wasted on transport/accommodation.
37. 
 22/07/10 07:49pm
I like the idea tbh. Give iM the free ride they've earned this time, as well as the winner of the comp (2nd if iM win)

Then from then on the past victor gets the priviledge. Does mean less teams at quals though, which is still a problem.
38. 
 22/07/10 07:50pm
sommi u realise i ran a 20 team nationals a month ago, that actually finished on time ?

LOL
39. 
 22/07/10 08:00pm
EDITED
The only thing better than sarcasm in meaningful threads is an avatar of yourself on a chinup bar.

Edit: sarcasm
40. 
 22/07/10 08:15pm
#36 it still doesnt solve the problem of having less teams at the qualifier in general, a far lower quality of competition at the qualifier which makes it harder for teams to improve, and teams arent given the opportunity to fight/beat iM. For all intents and purposes the teams at that qual could only really place 2nd, and arent given the opportunity to place 1st and upset iM which could lead to them getting a better seed at nats, more confidence, exposure, etc.

I dno thats just my opinion, the only real reason they want to do it is because its a hassle to fly interstate players for qualifiers, so its win/win for them, yet it offers absolutely zero benefit to the competition and australian cs in general and if anything only harms it.

It's also very unfair to all the other interstate teams around that have to either attend quals with a far weaker lineup, or pay their own money to attend quals with their full team
41. 
 rdd
 22/07/10 08:50pm
#36 looks to have the best solution so far.
42. 
 22/07/10 09:14pm
Doesn't provide a solution for you and your fellow non-easterners rdd. FREE-FOR-ALL WCG!
43. 
 kEZ
 22/07/10 09:57pm
unfortunately i dont think theres going to be a solution these days in cs that suits everyone, it may suck that iM have to pay for quals + finals, and i think georges idea is a probably the best compromise atm, really we just need more teams, if only... I think wa should have had a qual as well, didnt they have like 8 teams at their ECN quals? more then syd/qld combined almost lol and PGC placed ~8th or somethin last nats so woulda been worth it.
44. 
 22/07/10 10:26pm
Strizzler, so what happens when it's not feasible for iM to attend a qualifier and just not go to nats?

Then you lose quality at a qualifier, funding, and quality at nationals.

$4K is a big price to pay for a chance at an overseas trip which players will end up forking out $$$ anyway.
45. 
 22/07/10 10:43pm
Wat happens when its not feasible for any other interstate team to not attend a qualifier, do we just give every single team in aus with interstate players a free trip to nats?

rize has already said that iM has the money to attend the quals, its just a pain for them to do, tbh i really dont see the problem. We need more teams attending quals not less..
46. 
 22/07/10 10:52pm
You're all cheap jobless fucks
47. 
 22/07/10 10:59pm
jim u wanna have kfc with me on saturday ?
48. 
 rdd
 22/07/10 11:08pm
haha sadly i dont think there will be a solution for us, atleast untill aus net gets better :(
49. 
 23/07/10 12:19am
I am happy to announce that nothing will be in limbo, we have worked out the situation and thanks to some additional funding by unpro and myself we covered the other team mates flights that were allocated to us...

See you all on saturday :)

s2
50. 
 23/07/10 12:26am
Btw i 100% agree with miles.

Lets face it guys, the same old faces are the ones that are playing the game these days. There are no new teams flying to nats i mean in the last like 5 nats there has essentially been the EXACT same players who have rearranged themselves into different lineups but the player base remains exactly the same...

What miles is saying is since iM are FORTUNATE enough to have the means to fly to every nats and compete at every nats without auto money, why not give the funding to teams that actually NEED the money to travel to the national event.

ANY Australian team with financial support in terms of complete flights and accommodation coverage at this stage with the community being as small as it is SHOULD be given automatic entry into national events not just iM...

This way more newer teams might play the game because there's instantly another invite up for grabs at every qualifier so you might lose teams like iM and Archaic at quals and end up with 2-3 more new teams who are turned away from LAN events because of the skill gap...

Food for thought cheers.
51. 
 23/07/10 12:29am
EDITED
and @ dave on post #17 and #45


"#15 that sounds good, now qld can have 4 teams instead of 5 at their qual and the autoberth can be worth $175 now instead of $325"

$175 to a QLD team is better than $0 after iM take the $325 :)


"rize has already said that iM has the money to attend the quals, its just a pain for them to do, tbh i really dont see the problem. We need more teams attending quals not less."

I again will side with Miles and say that it is NOT in iM's best interest to fork out money for 3 of their players to fly to QLD to steal another teams auto which doesnt even cover the flights they had to pay for to get to the qual, let alone the next 3 tickets back into sydney to attend the nats... QLD LAN loses money, iM loses money and nobody wins out of iM having to qual...


And yes I am very involved in this subject because this scenario DIRECTLY affected my team and our capabilities to go to Nats so I realise I am speaking with some bias but none of what i said isnt true.
52. 
 23/07/10 12:44am
EDITED
"Archaic's Players" or "Archaic" - both say the same thing in the context it was written.

Valid points from a lot of people. I don't see a real problem assuming the 'champions' are the ONLY team extended an invite and are still required to pay the entry fee (Perhaps even nominate a state it contributes towards). I don't see one less team at a qualifier being a problem - it's only 1 state and it's only 1 team.

The big positive that's already been mentioned is the fact the 'champions' aren't taking away from another top teams chance at qualifying and in turn the funding that comes along with it.

Either way it's an interesting topic of debate.
53. 
 23/07/10 12:48am
Great to hear you guys can attend after all of this PeetyG. :) \o/
54. 
 23/07/10 12:48am
http://www.esau.com.au/forums/thread/418116
^
Completely off topic from what's being said but may interest some people keen on dubstep after wcg :D
55. 
 23/07/10 01:11am
thankyou pete thats exactly what i mean took the words out of my mouth
56. 
 23/07/10 02:15pm
so why dont we just have a nationals without qualifiers and the teams that want to turn up can pay their own way there?
57. 
 23/07/10 02:46pm
Johnson Marks asking the important questions
58. 
 23/07/10 02:49pm
coz not everyone has that kind of funding jnsie
59. 
 23/07/10 03:12pm
i would love to have kfc with you on saturday, if you meant me not unpro miles, if you meant unpro however...pfft i didnt wanna have lunch with you anyway.

i didnt post that last post about jobless fucks btw.
60. 
 aNh
 23/07/10 03:14pm
gay shit. would of liked to be at WCG. #59 wheres my lunch james:(
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