This is the final half of the WCG 2009 grand final which saw SQL come back from a 11-4 deficit against v300 to win 16-13. The video also shows the heated exchange of words between rize and davestr1zl when rize became overly enthusiastic.
heres some information ive gathered from the video / people at the comp
- zpr was adminning the game i think, when he clearly has bias towards sql (being there ex manager and they bootcamped as his house)
- zpr warned v300 about deadtalking in the semi final match (gave a final warning), even tho that deadtalking had no affect on the game and round at hand (which might be wrong but SQL were allowed to do more) Example: Emir was saying things helpful to his team mates on the round at hand when dead
- but didnt seem to do anything about the dead talking by emir and manager dead talking by rizE
- rizE constantly called for them even after being told not to by davestriz
- even one round pointed out that oxey was flashed after looking at v300's screen
now theres video evidence, pretty much a nobrainer on this 1
#2 zpr was only adminning the first map of the grand final (i think), in which he gave 1 warning to v300 for deadtalking for a minute 'offence' (if u want to call it that).
he (zpr), amongst other things, was adminning sql during the entire group stages and allowing them to deadtalk 100% like it was any normal comp in all their group stages games, which is why i told unpro to not let him admin sql during the sunday games, although unfortunately there wasnt a single admin on the grand final map.
rize was 'coaching' for them for about ~5 rounds before anyone (me) said anything to him telling him to stop as it was against the rules, after which point he still continued but it was mostly just the like 'nice work' type stuff which is fine i guess.
the entire weekend admins (like zpr) were handing out deadtalking warnings for the most minute things (which is great that they were being so strict on it), its just a shame that it was being done to every team bar SQL really, as the only admin that was ever behind them was zpr who was allowing them to do whatever they wanted, but oh well what do you expect i guess.
i am sorry we have no control of what miles rize wants to say and who admins what games. good game all sorry for miles' behaviour i didn't realise how much he was calling until i saw this... we were all so into the game we were tuning him out most of the time!
#6 emir said (its even in the video) that miles was ur manager, so atleast some of you were definitely aware of what was going on, and you could have had complete control of it.
its at the point where rize says "i can see there screen i can call what i want", and then emir says "he's our manager"
give SQL the credit they deserve, they played sick all weekend and by going on with this your implying that rize gave them the win which is not true at all, ive played with people talking and you can barely hear through the headfones,
#11 yeh, i said there was only an admin for the first map - i know for a fact there wasnt a single admin present for the 3rd map, and im pretty certain there wasnt one for the 2nd map either but im not 100% on that
Yes davestrizl, we are in the middle of the final map playing for a trip overseas. we are going to pause the game and tell miles to stop talking and calling for us... are you seriously that dumb? ITS NOT OUR PROBLEM WHAT HE SAYS.... TALK TO THE WCG ADMINS. understand where i am coming from now? deadshit.
It takes 2 seconds to tell him to stop why would u need to pause? Emir is trying to tell us he's ur coach yet he doesnt have 2 seconds to tell miles "shhh"? So no, i dont see where your coming from there, and theres no need to get abusive.
He was ur coach, as argued by both miles and emir, so yes it was your problem. I'm not going to bring anything up with the wcg admins as it has nothing to do with me - if v300 wanted to though i so no reason why they couldnt, and see no reason why they wouldnt be in the right aswell.
I also am in no way saying miles made you win, you guys played great all weekend, all im saying is its disappointing rules werent enforced - or more specifically were enforced at different levels for different teams due to admin bias.
tbh i heard miles yelling when we made shots and won rounds but not once did i hear him call where they were , ask v300 im sure they didnt hear him either or maybe i just use loud ingame lol. Either way its sad to see that people always have to complain about something, no surprise its davestrizl, who has been on our case for the past 3 years.. i hope i didn't offend you in your early days or something.
Im not having a go at you guys at all otis, more at zpr/rize. Miles was (before i told him to stop) definitely calling things that you guys shouldnt have been able to call due to being dead, and calling far far more than 'nice work' etc. There was 1 round, as said by coop, where a few of us even saw rize look over at either oxey or jair's screen when he was the last left alive, see that he got flashed, and then called it telling you all to go get him caus he was flashed.
and v300 did hear it, as both oxey/jairs said "is rize even allowed to do that?" at which point i told rize to stop (i was aware of it for a few rounds before that but kind of figured that either an admin would step in or he would stop, neither of which happened).
i think i remember someone calling behind a team blatantly and alot worse then what miles was doing last nats... i wonder why nobody was complaining then.. oh thats right >.<
"tbh i heard miles yelling when we made shots and won rounds but not once did i hear him call where they were"
Even in the first 3 minutes of the video you can blatently here miles saying specific things, calling exact positions, exact numbers, where people were previously, etc, you cant really argue that he wasnt...
And #24 - as i said to miles, and is also in the video (at around 4.55) - miles tried to argue that what he was doing was the same as what xs1v was doing for Immunity at kode5. Im assuming this is what u were talking about?
Thats beacuse the rules for a coach, which emir and miles tried to argue he was, are COMPLETELY different for wcg and kode5. WCG rules specifically state that a coach can ONLY talk during the freezetime, or when all 5 players of his team are dead. Thats why nothing was said at kode5.
im not saying miles didnt , after watching the vid i can see he was calling for us , however as i said before, at the time i could not hear him..
anyway was a great comp gg to all admins who made it happen and nice work from v300, you guys defiantly put it to us and proved you guys are an awesome team/players and i hope you'll stick around for the next comp
only way you stop this shit is being a complete nazi
can imagine how well everyone would have taken it if i'd piped up (or oldschool callous stomping in telling everyone to fuck up)
in the end the best team won, and i think miles was just getting into the game as much as possible; i don't think he meant any harm by it and i certainly don't think miles had the thought in the back of his mind that he was "influencing" the result
zpr shouldnt admin sql because he's biased towards them
people prob dont want me adminning because they'll think i want them to lose
cant really have davestrizl adminning because one team might assume he's biased towards v300/melbourne teams or whatever
theres lots of arguments that you can make, and you can't really win either way
think we just need to recognise that the better team won - i'm sure pete and the rest of the v300 guys would have agreed with that - and just endevaour to talk to both teams beforehand, sort out which nazis they want watching over them and that way we won't have these kinds of problems popping up post-nats
To start off with yes, I do admit that I am in the wrong here and realise now what Miles/rizE was doing for SQL during the second half of the third map was everything but appropriate. I apologise to everyone, especially v300 for this matter and I can understand why players like davestr1zl must be furious - its clearly unfair and bad sportsmanship.
I promise to anyone here that had I known this was happening during the time, I would have immediately stopped it from happening. However, because there were so many viewers in between the two teams watching, I was unable to get through to where I was originally after I had restarted the server (Hence why the demo for the 2nd half of the 3rd map is there). Sure, that's a very poor excuse for someone who was supposed to be admining the game and could have told people to move aside so I could get through, but my thoughts at that time was to just stay put and keep an eye from quite some distance away... maybe 2-3 meters from where the last players (jairs & rumil) were sitting and let people watch the game without disruption. Anyone around me at that time like Mark/deStiny (who I was standing behind) and Matt/BurtoN, Alex/Dippa etc.. will tell you now that I was no where near Miles was.
Yes, I did hear him sometimes like when he said "the bomb's not going to defuse by itself, bro" but I honestly did not hear him say any of the things I just saw on that clip and I really do feel terrible about it... Again, I apologise to everyone.
And sure, I may be bias because I used to manage them and still continue to help them out however way I can, but under no circumstances do I tolerate unfair play.
look in my opinion, this whole situation was handled quite poorly.
firstly, why are the two teams back to back? i mean c'mon this is just asking for shit like this to happen... u would expect a WCG event to have this stuff thought out (not taking any credit away for the way the event was run since i was only there for like 20 minutes) quite a bit in advance, especially for something as significant as the grand final..
also, wtf @ miles? how anything was not said to him before dave did is seriously a joke; COMPLETELY DISREGARDING the fact that it would have made a difference to the result, that's real poor form and he should have been told from the first thing that he said to just shut up and watch the game (apart from congratulating etc)
also, from what's been previously said, telling a team that someone on the other team is flashed? LOL?????
dippa, u can't make excuses on the adminning, this is WCG, it's not a lan party, and stuff like adminning should be written in concrete as to how they're handled prior to the whole event, i still can't get over the fact that miles was told to stop by a SPECTATOR after FIVE rounds of this already occuring (according to previous info)
look, sql didn't do anything wrong, all credit to them for their win, but something like this shouldn't happen period.
maranello, I originally wanted v300 and Immunity to switch seats because Immunity was sitting directly next to GUTS and SQL was sitting behind v300 for the grand/consolation finals, but when asked, each team was happy with where they were sitting.
i shit you not, i was sitting next to emir (watching the game with the screen turned around; jim asked me to connect the pc so a random didn't join and start tk'ing people) alongside knyz and someone else? trong i think? and we (me+knyz, can't speak for trong) didn't hear miles calling to that degree.
i heard him say "bomb's not gonna defuse itself" but i didn't hear the calling on the degree that was on that tape, so ;x
pretty sure you can ask knyz and he'll back up what i was saying. fyi when i said "piped up" i meant in terms of how hard SQL would have raged if i stood up and suddenly decided i was adminning the game; i didn't mean that i heard what was going on.
If the teams were sitting that close to each other the admin for the day should have imposed strict rules for the finals, due to the close proximity of the teams (ie no manager, no talking at all from anyone accept the alive players).
Although managers are allowed you won't see them playing an active role during the WCG finals due to both teams sitting virtually next to each other. The manager of a team is definitely not allowed to see both sets of screens.
GL to SQL, however they will most likely get thrown into the toughest pool and get smashed. Enjoy it and try to get an upset.
im assuming zpr was admining this game
- zpr was adminning the game i think, when he clearly has bias towards sql (being there ex manager and they bootcamped as his house)
- zpr warned v300 about deadtalking in the semi final match (gave a final warning), even tho that deadtalking had no affect on the game and round at hand (which might be wrong but SQL were allowed to do more) Example: Emir was saying things helpful to his team mates on the round at hand when dead
- but didnt seem to do anything about the dead talking by emir and manager dead talking by rizE
- rizE constantly called for them even after being told not to by davestriz
- even one round pointed out that oxey was flashed after looking at v300's screen
now theres video evidence, pretty much a nobrainer on this 1
he (zpr), amongst other things, was adminning sql during the entire group stages and allowing them to deadtalk 100% like it was any normal comp in all their group stages games, which is why i told unpro to not let him admin sql during the sunday games, although unfortunately there wasnt a single admin on the grand final map.
rize was 'coaching' for them for about ~5 rounds before anyone (me) said anything to him telling him to stop as it was against the rules, after which point he still continued but it was mostly just the like 'nice work' type stuff which is fine i guess.
the entire weekend admins (like zpr) were handing out deadtalking warnings for the most minute things (which is great that they were being so strict on it), its just a shame that it was being done to every team bar SQL really, as the only admin that was ever behind them was zpr who was allowing them to do whatever they wanted, but oh well what do you expect i guess.
miles > you
its at the point where rize says "i can see there screen i can call what i want", and then emir says "he's our manager"
hard evidence of Rize being a rat
minimal evidence of rory being an infant/baby/toddler
hard evidence of emir being a turkish delight ramadan idiot
i think this argument is closed
afaik we did have an admin watching us because unpro gave me a warning on train :)
gg and gl sql in chengdu
more just saying how the rules need to be enforced in a non bias way(which clearly didn't happen)
He was ur coach, as argued by both miles and emir, so yes it was your problem. I'm not going to bring anything up with the wcg admins as it has nothing to do with me - if v300 wanted to though i so no reason why they couldnt, and see no reason why they wouldnt be in the right aswell.
I also am in no way saying miles made you win, you guys played great all weekend, all im saying is its disappointing rules werent enforced - or more specifically were enforced at different levels for different teams due to admin bias.
and v300 did hear it, as both oxey/jairs said "is rize even allowed to do that?" at which point i told rize to stop (i was aware of it for a few rounds before that but kind of figured that either an admin would step in or he would stop, neither of which happened).
Even in the first 3 minutes of the video you can blatently here miles saying specific things, calling exact positions, exact numbers, where people were previously, etc, you cant really argue that he wasnt...
Thats beacuse the rules for a coach, which emir and miles tried to argue he was, are COMPLETELY different for wcg and kode5. WCG rules specifically state that a coach can ONLY talk during the freezetime, or when all 5 players of his team are dead. Thats why nothing was said at kode5.
anyway was a great comp gg to all admins who made it happen and nice work from v300, you guys defiantly put it to us and proved you guys are an awesome team/players and i hope you'll stick around for the next comp
can imagine how well everyone would have taken it if i'd piped up (or oldschool callous stomping in telling everyone to fuck up)
in the end the best team won, and i think miles was just getting into the game as much as possible; i don't think he meant any harm by it and i certainly don't think miles had the thought in the back of his mind that he was "influencing" the result
zpr shouldnt admin sql because he's biased towards them
people prob dont want me adminning because they'll think i want them to lose
cant really have davestrizl adminning because one team might assume he's biased towards v300/melbourne teams or whatever
theres lots of arguments that you can make, and you can't really win either way
think we just need to recognise that the better team won - i'm sure pete and the rest of the v300 guys would have agreed with that - and just endevaour to talk to both teams beforehand, sort out which nazis they want watching over them and that way we won't have these kinds of problems popping up post-nats
I promise to anyone here that had I known this was happening during the time, I would have immediately stopped it from happening. However, because there were so many viewers in between the two teams watching, I was unable to get through to where I was originally after I had restarted the server (Hence why the demo for the 2nd half of the 3rd map is there). Sure, that's a very poor excuse for someone who was supposed to be admining the game and could have told people to move aside so I could get through, but my thoughts at that time was to just stay put and keep an eye from quite some distance away... maybe 2-3 meters from where the last players (jairs & rumil) were sitting and let people watch the game without disruption. Anyone around me at that time like Mark/deStiny (who I was standing behind) and Matt/BurtoN, Alex/Dippa etc.. will tell you now that I was no where near Miles was.
Yes, I did hear him sometimes like when he said "the bomb's not going to defuse by itself, bro" but I honestly did not hear him say any of the things I just saw on that clip and I really do feel terrible about it... Again, I apologise to everyone.
And sure, I may be bias because I used to manage them and still continue to help them out however way I can, but under no circumstances do I tolerate unfair play.
firstly, why are the two teams back to back? i mean c'mon this is just asking for shit like this to happen... u would expect a WCG event to have this stuff thought out (not taking any credit away for the way the event was run since i was only there for like 20 minutes) quite a bit in advance, especially for something as significant as the grand final..
also, wtf @ miles? how anything was not said to him before dave did is seriously a joke; COMPLETELY DISREGARDING the fact that it would have made a difference to the result, that's real poor form and he should have been told from the first thing that he said to just shut up and watch the game (apart from congratulating etc)
also, from what's been previously said, telling a team that someone on the other team is flashed? LOL?????
dippa, u can't make excuses on the adminning, this is WCG, it's not a lan party, and stuff like adminning should be written in concrete as to how they're handled prior to the whole event, i still can't get over the fact that miles was told to stop by a SPECTATOR after FIVE rounds of this already occuring (according to previous info)
look, sql didn't do anything wrong, all credit to them for their win, but something like this shouldn't happen period.
my 2 cents
but tbh i rkn
v300 > sql
no offense :p
gg to both teams
Anyway lol @ miles, if your going to talk shit mid game atleast give us the old 'your in a pickle now'
i heard him say "bomb's not gonna defuse itself" but i didn't hear the calling on the degree that was on that tape, so ;x
pretty sure you can ask knyz and he'll back up what i was saying. fyi when i said "piped up" i meant in terms of how hard SQL would have raged if i stood up and suddenly decided i was adminning the game; i didn't mean that i heard what was going on.
Although managers are allowed you won't see them playing an active role during the WCG finals due to both teams sitting virtually next to each other. The manager of a team is definitely not allowed to see both sets of screens.
GL to SQL, however they will most likely get thrown into the toughest pool and get smashed. Enjoy it and try to get an upset.